Parental "cloning"

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Parental "cloning"

Postby scott85 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:20 pm

okay, so when you were growing up, did your parents ask you which Church you wanted to go to? I doubt it. Did you tend to go with your parents political beliefs just so they accepted you?

I've thought this over and it seems parents in way, "clone" their kids. I just don't feel you are given the choice to go to a certain Church. you just go to where they go, and then supposedly you are that religion. what about when you turn 18? do most people honestly think their parents would be thrilled if you switched then just because you have no obligation to support theirs anymore?

on politics, I don't think it's as much of an issue. you don't have to go anywhere to become a democrat/republican. you could pretend to agree with your parents just to make them feel better, have your own beliefs, vote your own way, and they may never know

have you ever thought of it this way? I know this doesn't apply to everyone and some people may agree w/ their parents (that's not what I'm getting at, though..)
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Parental "cloning"

Postby Kurtis » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:49 pm

The way I see it, it's the responsibility of the parent to bring up their child well-mannered, disciplined and in one piece. The way parents go about this varies in my opinion, so naturally sometimes the way parents do it is via conventional methods including taking their child to church. Invariably, all a parent wants their child to do or be is healthy and successful. Some parents do want their child to be 'like' them though (to quote 'like father like son,') but I don't think it's a universal thing; some parents want their children to be the best they absolutely can, whereas other parents want their child molded (foolishly) a certain way.

The way I see it in regards to views when turning eighteen, I think most people are well and truly old enough at that point to understand and have their own opinions on matters, so I do believe they should be respected even by the parents, even if it is a case of 'agree to disagree.'

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Parental "cloning"

Postby scott85 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:17 pm

In a way I understand it's basically impossible to take your kids to 1 Church while you go to another. I can't think of anyone I know that's even done that. "well I'm going to so and so and my son/daughter is going to so and so" seriously has anyone even heard of this? another thing is kids are often too young to know if they like one thing better than another

The point I'm trying to get at more is, say your 18+ and someone asks you what religion you are. You say "I'm so and so religion", because your parents brought you up this way. well did you ever once consider anything else or that's what you are just because you were brought up that way. What if you don't want to change out of fear your parents would disown you? this is more of what I'm getting at

I've even noticed a link between certain religions and how people generally stand politically. I won't even mention which ones because I don't want to start conflict. you either know what I mean or you don't

so basically .. your young, your parents get you started on this religion, which is conveniently linked to certain politics, then success! "cloned". lol

again, I know this doesn't apply to everyone just wanted to share my thoughts on this observation I've made
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Parental "cloning"

Postby IWHMA » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:07 pm

I understand and have seen some cases where parents have raised their children to be clones, and may have used religion or politics.

I think a lot of it, though, is that parents want to teach their children to value the things they value. Since they themselves place value in it, they obviously believe it's worth while. It's similar how you might teach your child that sharing is good or that stealing is wrong. Of course if you believe something, you're going to instruct your child in a likewise manner. I think it's unhealthy for children to be forced to be molded into clones of their parents, but I see nothing wrong with instilling principles in one's children.

I was raised without religion. Without politics, too, for that matter. I started studying the Bible when I was about 11. My mom supported this, and started attending religious meetings after I started. She had done so as a child, but had been inactive for many years. So I was not raised in a religion, but I became religious as an older child, without being told to by my parents.

Oh, and my dad was and is highly opposed. He has given me a hard time about it since I started and has been outright abusive about it at times.

I know of a lot of younger people in my religion who chose to start studying on their own, despite their parent's indifference or opposition.

About politics, I do see where many religions promote a certain political party or ideal. From studying the Bible, I have come to believe that people should remain politically neutral, since the Bible says to 'be no part of this world' (John 17:15, 16; 1 John 2: 15-17). It also says that there is no hope in this world, or in humans making this world good again. Therefore, I am politically neutral and do not take part in their dealings.

Also, I am going to move this to the World Theory subforum. :)

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Parental "cloning"

Postby Molly » Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:07 pm

Interesting. I notice in certain areas of Scotland, there are particular *areas* of religious and political beliefs, most of these (if not all) are indeed connected. They also tie in with football teams, bizarrely, and you will find that people can make an entire judgement about your life, based on which team you support! These beliefs have been passed down through generations of families, and very often most younger people just *follow on* because its a family thing. To deviate from this in any way, shape or form, would - in some cases - mean being ostracized from the family.
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Parental "cloning"

Postby Solitude » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:55 am

okay, so when you were growing up, did your parents ask you which Church you wanted to go to? I doubt it.


No, they did not. My mom is a Catholic, and my dad is basically nondenominational. When I was younger, we would go to our church about once a month, excluding holidays. My siblings and I would also go to catechism. Then, the church leaders all retired, an idiotic regime took over, and we left. After that (when I was about nine), we would only go on holidays at another church.

I would expect nothing less from someone who considers themselves to be a Catholic, but I'll elaborate more on that later.

Did you tend to go with your parents political beliefs just so they accepted you?


No. My parents are center-left; although I have conservative tendencies in my personal habits, I'm an extreme leftist who holds conservative/moderate stances on particular social issues. Currently, I couldn't care less about what my family thinks about my views. While I'm sure that my parents view my political beliefs as being extreme, the only real thing my mom doesn't like is that I'm an agnostic atheist.

I've thought this over and it seems parents in way, "clone" their kids. I just don't feel you are given the choice to go to a certain Church. you just go to where they go, and then supposedly you are that religion. what about when you turn 18? do most people honestly think their parents would be thrilled if you switched then just because you have no obligation to support theirs anymore?


I see your point, but I also think it's tough for you to imagine it from the other side. For a religious individual, his religion plays a large role in his life, and he views accepting his holy book's content as truth as important as other 'non-religious,' meaning that they exist independently of religion but are also found in religion, morals. I understand why parents teach their religion to their children from birth, but I would agree that leaving little room for questions or discussions when they grow up is wrong.

Parents often feel it's their duty to teach their child right from wrong, and if they're religious, they have a moral duty, according to their religion, to raise the kid on that religion. If they don't, they're being immoral. By the type of logic presented in the op, many things most of us just take without a second thought and would teach our children should be questioned. For example, why teach your kids not to steal? Wouldn't it be better to let them arrive at their own decision?

Attempts at indoctrination and all that are inevitable to some extent. Studies show that most people hold similar political views as their parents did. The only attempt you can take to prevent this (and it's good that you're concerned about it) is to instill values in your kid from a young age that promote individuality and nonconformity. If you do that, they have a decent chance at arriving at their own beliefs when they finally do grow up. For instance, a moderate who leans to the right might raise a conservative.

on politics, I don't think it's as much of an issue. you don't have to go anywhere to become a democrat/republican. you could pretend to agree with your parents just to make them feel better, have your own beliefs, vote your own way, and they may never know


You can also do this with religion, especially if you live in another community than your parents do. I wouldn't advise it. There's a lot of pressure to be a certain way, but even though it's much more challenging, it's more fulfilling to stay true to yourself.

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Parental "cloning"

Postby Sunny49 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Well, my parents are non-practicing Catholics and rightists. When I was a kid, I didn´t really talk much or share my opinions so they didn´t really know what I think, that´s why they couldn´t really force much on me. I guess they just assumed I share their opinion, lol. I started talking more when I was 17/18 or so and then they noticed I think differently (cause I´m an agnostic and libertarian leftist). They were kind of shocked but no, they didn´t really force me to be like them. They do tease me sometimes and call me a "degenerate" (I´m not sure if that´s the right term in english) cause I´m the only leftist in the family, lol. Sometimes they call me a "communist" (although I´m not a communist). It used to hurt me a little when I was younger, but I don´t care anymore cause I can´t change my attitudes and ideals just so I can fit with them or so they would like me. So, now I just tease them for being rightists, lol.

Personally, I don´t really think it´s ethical to impose your views on your children. A parents duty imo is to teach children critical thinking, confidence and tolerance. They should support the children to be what they truly are and take care they don´t degenerate from THEMSELFS. Everything else is foolish, imo. Also, how can you teach them tolerance if you force them to be something they´re not?

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Parental "cloning"

Postby IWHMA » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:55 pm

Solitude, I like your analytical response.

Sunny, "degenerate" is a mean word; I hope they don't call you that. Also, I like your point about teaching tolerance. That would be a great thing for everyone to know.

My parents aren't political (my mom is actively neutral like I am, and my dad just doesn't understand or care (and neither does my mom, really)), but whenever we speak in terms of ideal, my dad calls me a communist, too. Being neutral, that never hurt me, because I would just say "communism is no better or worse than anything else, and I am neutral." :P

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Parental "cloning"

Postby SandWshooter » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:18 pm

My mother is a non-practicing Catholic (very close to just being a Theist, though) and my father was, until recently, what was basically a fundamentalist Atheist who made me stop going to church and tried to turn my brother away from his faith. They are also staunch Democrats who believe everything they're told as long as it comes from sources that are pro-Democrat. I, on the other hand, am a Catholic and a Right-leaning moderate, which is only tolerated as long as I don't bring it up very often. They wanted me to be a "clone", I think, but I'm smarter than that
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Parental "cloning"

Postby IWHMA » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:02 pm

Neat. I think we're just a society of rebels here. :D

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Parental "cloning"

Postby LoneApothecary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:47 am

Nope, I didn't have a say in what religion I was indoctrinated into. I was born an atheist, and I would've chosen to stay that way if I could've. It would've saved me a lot of time and energy. I was baptized at a roman catholic church, and went to church every Sunday for several years. Now I have to go through all the trouble of getting excommunicated. *sigh* As for politics, that was never a big topic in my household.

Parents obviously influence their children to a certain extent, but bringing your child to a church to hear about things they can't possibly fully understand or properly question, then, as far as I'm concerned, you're brainwashing them. That reminds me of a joke. A young girl is sitting in a church, observing a baby being baptized. As she sees the priest brushing water on the baby's head, she turns to her mother and asks "Mommy, why are they brainwashing the baby?" In any case, even before I turned 18, I wasn't obliged to support my family's beliefs. I refused to go to church after a while, and it's not like they were stupid enough to force me to go, and they couldn't kick me out at that point. I couldn't care less whether or not my family is thrilled that I reject their superstitions, so I don't think about that at all.

If I were to have a child, something that will never happen, I'd explain my views to them, and my reasons for holding those views, but I'd never say that they had to hold the same views as me, I'd never say there was anything intrinsically wrong with them, I'd never threaten them with any sort of punishment for not holding my views, and I'd avoid bringing deep, philosophical issues up to them until they can at least understand it to an extent. I'd teach them to question things, even the things I tell them, and come to their own conclusions.
"By all means let's be open minded, but not so open minded that our brains fall out."

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Parental "cloning"

Postby Kurtis » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:51 am

If I were to have a child, something that will never happen, I'd explain my views to them, and my reasons for holding those views, but I'd never say that they had to hold the same views as me, I'd never say there was anything intrinsically wrong with them, I'd never threaten them with any sort of punishment for not holding my views, and I'd avoid bringing deep, philosophical issues up to them until they can at least understand it to an extent. I'd teach them to question things, even the things I tell them, and come to their own conclusions.

Agreed. There is a difference between teaching your child about subjects and downright forcing them to think that way. A healthy child is one that grows up and questions the world about him, including everything he or she is taught.

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Parental "cloning"

Postby Sunny49 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:38 am

Agreed! Forcing children to think a certain way is child abuse.

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Parental "cloning"

Postby LoneApothecary » Thu May 23, 2013 3:16 am

I just finished watching Deborah 13 (http://documentaryheaven.com/deborah-13-servant-of-god/#). Talk about parental cloning.

On a positive note, it's amazing how much of an effect being encouraged to ask questions can have on a child. Nobody in my family encouraged critical thinking. I was told things and accepted them as I, like any child, was impressionable. My brother asks questions, and when he does, I encourage him to keep asking questions. He's asking critical questions years before I did. I can't help but smile when a child can spot special pleading on their own (he asked "if god created the universe, then what created god?"). It's inspiring to see how easily freethinking can develop when it's encouraged.
"By all means let's be open minded, but not so open minded that our brains fall out."

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Parental "cloning"

Postby SandWshooter » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:02 am

Been getting into a lot of disputes with my father because he immediately trivializes anything a Republican or non-Atheist has done, borderline worships the Democrat party, and takes anything Bill Maher says as undeniable truth. So, he's basically doing all the kinds of things he looks down upon others for (supposedly) doing. I'm getting sick of all the bias I constantly see, particularly the extreme bias in the media, which has gotten to the point that they won't report anything that isn't pro-government or in-line with their policies.
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